The Tension
If you’re a builder, leader, or change-maker, you already know the tension: the push and pull between where you are and where you want to be. It’s the moments when success doesn’t feel like you expected, when growth forces hard decisions, or when challenges test your limits.
Hosted by Travis Penfield, The Tension explores how high-performing leaders navigate these pivotal moments. You won’t find simple solutions here—because the tension isn’t something to be solved. Instead, you’ll hear stories, strategies, and insights to help you manage the tension and turn it into fuel for your personal and professional success.
The Tension
The Tension of Leveling Up
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What does it really take to level up in life without losing sight of what matters most?
Travis Penfield sits down with longtime friend Clint Phillips, Founder & CEO of Medici, to explore The Tension of Leveling Up and what happens when ambition, adversity, and success challenge us to grow.
From a difficult childhood in South Africa to building successful healthcare companies, Clint has experienced both extraordinary success and significant challenges. Along the way, he's learned that reaching the next level isn't just about what you accomplish. It's about understanding what's driving you, what you're willing to give up, and who you're becoming in the process.
Clint and Travis discuss the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, navigating adversity, choosing forgiveness and gratitude, and recognizing when success begins to mean something more.
It's a conversation about continuing to pursue big things while making sure you're pursuing them for the right reasons.
Follow The Tension for conversations about the tensions that shape our lives, leadership, and legacy.
Instagram: @tensionpodcast
So Clint, our very first time playing competitive golf, like a tournament, you invite me out to Cabo. What happens?
SPEAKER_01You know, what a treat. Um, beautiful course. And on the first day they tell us our first matches against JT. Yes. Which you assume is Justin Thomas. And uh you're upset that we have to now play golf against a professional golfer. I was very upset, I remember. Yeah. Until we pulled up and it was a different JT, and he said, Hi, I'm uh Justin. And then he went on to say, I've eagled every par five at Augusta. Yep. To which he replied, I've never been to August. So that was our start. And um And it ended up being Mr. Timberlake. It was Justin Timberlake, and uh what an adventure that started. Four days of golf against people whose passion for golf was unbelievable. Justin is a great golfer. Yes. But on that day we beat him. We did, and uh very special time we actually end up winning our flight. Hard to do, very hard, and going through to the final.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So um it feels like you're leaving us short. Keep going with this story. So we win the flight, which if you're not a golfer out there, that means you beat your pool of people to get to the finals. I mean, this is why you play in these tournament. Uh, Clint, do you mind sharing what happens?
SPEAKER_01We decided you being the better golfer should tee off. Yes. You hit a beautiful drive down the middle with a whole crowd, Timberlake, celebs, crazy people cheering, music blaring, they're playing this heartbeat over the music. I go to hit a seven iron, one of my favorite clubs, maybe my favorite clubs. You love it, and I shanked it into the forest, never to be seen again.
SPEAKER_00And the shame has haunted me.
SPEAKER_03And and then I decided to want to talk about it for five or six hours after the round, which I know didn't probably help. I apologize.
SPEAKER_00You also try to make me feel better, but I didn't want to talk about golf for at least two months after that.
SPEAKER_01But hey, the next year you overcame and hit a beautiful one. That's right. That's right. Got a little closer every year, got through the next round the next year. Oh yes. Oh yes. Thanks for sure.
SPEAKER_03Let's be honest. Life's messy. Decisions are complex, and it's not all black and white. But these are the decisions that shape our growth. Welcome to the tension. Let's get into it. All right, y'all. Welcome to The Tension. Again, I say it every time, but I mean this has to be the best guest that we have ever had with the tension that I think that if you know this man, you've been thinking all along, like, I want to know more of his story. I want to know how he's done, what he's done. And so today the tension is the tension of leveling up. In life, we are consistently met with these challenges, these setbacks, and we get to choose status quo, survival, or do we want to try to thrive and get to the next level? And my guest today, Clint Phillips, one of my best friends in the world. I've had some of my best memories in life with this man. Clint, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Travis, what a delight. We've hung out in all sorts of places to do this in your fancy podcast studio is uh is awesome.
SPEAKER_03Before we get going, who are you? Who is Clint Phillips? Um, and just know if you don't give like real, true who you are, especially in business, I'm gonna talk you up, but you're a humble dude. But give us a little family life, business life, and then we'll we'll head into the tension.
SPEAKER_01You know, uh Travis, I am an extremely grateful uh person. I grew up in South Africa, uh, incredible mom. Um, one brother, uh loved rugby, the sport, loved sport, ended up moving to the US to play rugby in a little town called Aspen, Colorado, which were the best rugby players. But the reason I chose it is because I'd watched the movie Dumb and Dumber and said, that Aspen, like, let's go.
SPEAKER_03And Sam was a car vestraner.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. After qualifying as a doctor of chiropractic, uh, physical therapy, um, acupuncture, nutrition, some other training. I uh had the pleasure of moving to the small town in Aspen. Yeah. Um after my first season there, I went home and proposed to my wife, Jade, who was on the TV show Gladiators in South Africa. She was the Gladiator Thunder, and we decided to spend our first year of marriage in America in Aspen. Uh, one year turned to two years. We had our son, ended up having three children in Aspen. Wonderful people. Americans have been very good to us. America has been very good to us. I thank God every day for the wonderful opportunities that have been put before. I feel a real calling to fix healthcare. Um, just the burden of people in healthcare every day bothers me, wakes me up. Um just thinking, how do we uh solve this? And it's been just an incredible journey getting to meet people like you and just uh amazing folks along the way and just so excited um for the future. Yeah. Still today.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. In business context, uh, again, you're too humble to say it, uh, you are by far and away uh one of the more successful people I've met. And yet, uh, in a lot of ways, like you would never even know it. Um, and I've really admired that about you of like as I've seen you scale and I've known you this last decade, it seems like every year you've challenged yourself to level up and to get better, both from a faith perspective, as a dad, right, as a husband in business. And it's been so fun to watch is what I feel like is a friend and in a lot of ways mentee in watching how you do it. And every listener out there is at some part of their life where they probably have a choice today, I would guess. Do they want to level up or do they want to stay in that status quo? Like, why is it a tension? Why would we call it that, do you think?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think leveling up costs something. You don't just level up, it's not all just uh benefit upside easy. Yeah. Um, there's sayings like a new level, new devil. Um to level up, you have to give up. Um, there's something you have to leave behind each other. Well, quote, quote machine here. You want to uh level up. Well, as a young, as a young person, as a kid, I remember seeing my dad sick. He died at 55 and his health was bad for many years before that. Um, I felt continual financial tension um in how we lived. We didn't know where we were gonna live often. My father would kick us out the house and we'd be on the street looking for somewhere where we were gonna stay. So as a kid, you're like, man, I I wanted like this is what I want for my life. I want to see. And at the same time, I'm going to church and I'm hearing about this good God who wants the best for you, who uh who blessed the people who walk closely and not just finance in every area of their life. He he blessed their ability to help other people. And you think of Daniel. Um, I studied Daniel, Joseph, these guys who went through difficult stuff. I mean difficult stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And wow, did God use their life? So I was like, Lord, can you change my stars? Can I be somebody that can be used by you? Can I be somebody that can experience the miraculous, experience your glory? Um, you know, leave a mark in this world.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that was a just a constant desire. So whenever I read scripture, I would read it through that lens. Whenever I heard somebody speak about leveling up, is you know, your term's a great one. Um, how do I how do I get ahead? How do I move beyond the confines of you know the world around us that so often wants to keep us in place?
SPEAKER_03When you say the world pushing us to status quo, why is that? Like, what do you think it is?
SPEAKER_01Well, there is um, if you think at a spiritual level, or we believe there's uh an enemy that wants to hold you back, that wants to see you actually destruct, that wants you to suffer struggle. And on the other side of it, you've got a God who's like, hey, I've I've built this world, I've showed you how to thrive in it. Are you going to take the steps that I've shown you? Are you going to walk through the doors that I open? Or are you going to just uh choose to watch you know the people around you? Yeah. Um and most people don't want you to get ahead. Most people feel uh, you know, it doesn't make them feel good to see somebody else get get ahead of them. So, you know, they're like, oh, just take it easy, man. That's okay if you sleep in. That's okay, don't worry about that. Don't get into that all that fitness stuff, don't get crazy, you know, everything in moderation and it's nonsense. Come on, say it. Moderation is the last of things. So you've got a uh, you know, uh, the Lord says, Life and death in the power of the tongue. Choose your path, you know, choose which way you are going to go. All the time there are these choices that you get to make to say, Am I gonna take the high road? I'm gonna take the road less traveled, or am I going to conform to the things of this uh world? And that's really not where we want to be. And I feel the tension every day. I don't want to get up early. You know, I don't want to read my Bible, I don't want to always answer my wife in a nice tone. Um, I want to, you know, um, I want to do what I want to do. Yeah. Um, and those pieces. So there's that tension, but my goodness, every time you make that choice, that step, there's a price to pay, but there's a reward as well. And I've loved seeing, and in my life today, I'm saying, Lord, how far can we take this thing? I'm already way past my dreams. Yeah, people say, What's on your bucket list? I'm so far past my bucket list.
SPEAKER_03So, Clint, take us back, you know, um, because one of the things every time we explore these really wonderful tensions with these amazing people that have all this wisdom, the thing that we keep hearing from folks is that in fact, the people that learn how to just more or less accept that certain things are just tensions, like Andy Stanley, right? You're never gonna solve them, right? One of the things is your friend that I have found so powerful. I don't think um a lot of people know about you. I think a lot of people know um all the things on Instagram and all these amazing parts of your life and all the big success and all that, and all that's true. And I think you you manage that wonderfully, and someone that knows you deeply, uh, you feel the weight of that burden and you want to do good with that, and I love that. But what a lot of people don't know is your past, right? And like the the things that you had to choose to level up in, I I think that it would be a miss is if this podcast people said leveling up always just leads to this like great success. But like for you, your very beginning days were actually the when we think about the tension of leveling up, it was almost like the tension of your level up was getting out, kind of getting out of the current of what you'd seen. And you mentioned on the very uh front end when you're going through your story, but like um maybe tell us a little bit more like childhood. Like, what was leveling up like for you? And when did you first see the like, whoa, like I gotta manage this thing because if I let it happen to me, I'm just gonna continue in this current.
SPEAKER_01The first thing I want to deal with is success. Um, people often go, hey, you're successful because you made money. And John Maxwell puts it best. He says, Success is those who know you the best love you the most. Come on. And that is so that is the real mark. And I haven't heard a better definition definition of success. So just want to put that. Um, I remember Bill Hybel saying, Do you know what we call a billionaire with four failed marriages? We call them a success. Like the world sees him as a success. And that's crazy because you know that really isn't what we're after. So I just want to, with the right framework of success, and I've always had a you know a biblical view. If your success didn't come through you helping people, if it didn't allow you to bring people along with you and make a difference, is it really, you know, is it really success?
SPEAKER_03Come on.
SPEAKER_01So I start with a crazy dad and an amazing mom. And uh my father just got anger, anger issues. Now he was told as a kid that his parents tried to abort him and it didn't work. So he has this message over him, and I'm trying to give him grace because he did a lot of dumb stuff, um, and was really just bitter and angry all the time. Had this thing that I think really cost him his health. I think he would have lived another 15, 20 years, even with if he didn't have this bitterness, this anger that you know really turned into resentment and unforgiveness. But he really uh couldn't control his emotions, he would kick us out on the street, and I'd watch in the movies when the parents would fight, the mother would say to the father, like, leave now. And the father would like leave the house. Not that now. He's like, get out. And he's so violent, he had physically uh punch hit my mother, and so we're like, let's just uh go. I remember on occasion coming-what age were you? How many of this happened most of my childhood? Um, they got divorced, and then he convinced her that he had changed, and they got remarried. And we were like celebrating, like, this is amazing, like our family's back together, and the first time we saw him lose his temper again, we're like, oh no, he hasn't changed, you know. And we had to go into hiding for a while. So we're so scared of what he was gonna do. We didn't, he didn't know where we lived. We just uh it was really went. Watch before we turned into the street that there wasn't his car behind us because he was a very sinister, you know, he had some some rough tendencies. So it was a um it was bumpy, and you realize, hey, this isn't what what you want to have. Fortunately, church was an incredible stabilizer of like, hey, God has a plan for you. For me, I'm this kid who's scared of everything, I'm not doing well at school, uh, don't do well at sports. You're telling me like God really has a plan for me. Well, I had to hear that again and again. My mother would say this verse over us every day you're the head and not the tail, you're above and not beneath, from Deuteronomy. And she would just say that. And the first 20 times she said it, it had no impact. The first 200 times she said it, it had no impact. But about time 2000. Shout out to parents out there, just keep saying that, right? She just spoke that over us, and one day, like really the head and not the tail. I'm in um uh the sixth or seventh grade, I climb over the fence at school because I don't want to walk all the way around. Um, you know, I'm efficient, I like the efficiency even as a young age. The headmaster grabs me and he says, and they were, you know, they were allowed to be a lot more disciplined stuff. Yeah, but he said, I've seen kids like you. You amount to nothing. So you have the words of your father saying, You'll be a beggar on the street, you're gonna come begging to my front door because he had money, wouldn't give us, and he got out of paying alimony, child support, all those things. Genius. End up shooting the assistant pastor. Like, talk about embarrassing. We were we were glad he was going to jail because we thought it'd be peace. And the next minute he gets out.
SPEAKER_03No way.
SPEAKER_01It's just self-defense. No, like the guy was sitting in his car. I didn't hear that story. The guy was sitting in his car when he shot him, you know. So um, just cra, you know, crazy uncertainty. But there is this theme of watching a mother serve God, she's speaking God's word over you, you're going to church and you're like, hey, I can be the head. Because I I'm I'm the back. I I resonated with Gideon in the Bible because it says that his clan was the least and the lowest of clans, and he was the lowest in his clan. I'm like, that's my God. He understands me, Gideon. I'm telling you, I read those words. I'm like, that's amazing. God uses him. So these beautiful things of saying, God, can you use me? What does it take to look to to live a different life? What does it take to not be? I'd hear my mom, even if she started to start a business and do things and provide for us, she's in debt. And like it was always like just that financial like overhang. So, like, Lord, what is you know, what does your best look like? Because I want to sign up for that best uh package. So anybody I ever met who was slightly impressive, I wanted to hang out with. I wanted to spend time. I knew one wealthy person in South Africa, and I was like, I want to spend time with this family. Like, I just want to just want some learnings to like rub off on me because they've got cars, they've got a lovely house, they seem a happy family, they get together, the lake on the weekends, and everybody. I'm like, man, like that's that seems you know like something I want to learn about.
SPEAKER_03Was it when you saw that family or maybe maybe there's others? Is that when you really started to realize that wait a second, like your your mom's, you know, the scripture in Deuteronomy pours over you maybe a little bit more? And is that like when you feel like you first saw that like this actually is a tension, I can level up out of this environment? Like, is that the first time, or do you think it was back in like some of the darker days where there was a moment you're like, I'm gonna I'm gonna yeah, change my stars, or like when when did you first see that this was even like a tension that you could get out of?
SPEAKER_01You know, uh it was in the ninth grade, a teacher came around and he gave us a goal sheet and he said, Yeah, write your goal and here's the steps to do it.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01And I set two goals, they're both sports goals, and the one was to uh make the team for the 800, and the other was to make the A rugby team. Okay. I'd been in the B and C team. And I put those two down and said, Well, what steps are you gonna take? And I realized there was this coach that was a dad who just helped kids on the side. Yeah, and I went to him and I said, Will you coach me? And he said, sure. And so I started to run with him, and my running helped him. As I got really good at running, it helped my rugby. And so I achieved those two goals. I was like, Whoa, this is amazing, Lord. Like, what should I do now? And I was like, Well, there was a really good runner. I was like, I want to beat that guy in two years, and it was a long shot. It's like, okay, in the 10th grade now, I'm gonna beat him in the 12th grade. And the 11th grade I got closer to him, in the 12th grade, I beat him and he quit. Beat him by like an inch. Um, and uh so that was like just a nice little way to get momentum. A beautiful moment that headmaster who said, I've seen guys like you amount to nothing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, in my fun year of high school, I'm the captain of the rugby team. Come on now, that's a team. That's a team. That's a team. And guess what? His son is on my team, and as the captain, have the power to X his son and say we don't want him on the team, he's not good enough, or to Lend B on the team. And I'm walking down on the field, I start crying with a rugby ball in arm, and I walk past, his name was Mr. Foster. And I walk past Mr. Foster, I'm tall, I've got my team behind me, these guys will run through walls for me. And uh just like, hey, thank you, Lord. You take the foolish things and you confound the wise. You use the Gideon, and that was my like little Gideon of like, wait a minute, I'm leading one of the best rugby teams our school's ever had into that. So those are those moments where you're like, wow, Lord, you really can do something with somebody who's um dedicated to you. There's the scripture, seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, Matthew 6, and all these things will be added to you. So first seeking God's kingdom, not just I want this, Lord. What are the things that I need to pursue? I want to pursue you first and then see where you can go with that. Yeah. The the next big learning would really happen when I moved to Aspen, Colorado, and some of the world's most influential people. I had 42 of the Forbes 400 families. These are the billionaire families of the world. Over 10% of them were coming into my clinic, and I was getting hours a day with them. Hours. Oh my goodness. That's when you realize the tension. These guys, tension was their world. Yes. I had one clinic and I remember Howard Schultz of Starbucks coming into the clinic. I was so excited to meet him. I had so many questions I was going to ask him. He didn't let me ask one question. He had so many questions for me. Clint, how did you come up with this business idea? How did you pick this color theme? How did you set this deal up with the hotel? Like, how did you choose these therapies together? I'm like, what? Anyway, at the same time we're watching, they were bombing. I did a TV in the clinic, and they were bombing Starbucks in different countries as a protest against America. And uh I said, Howard, how do you deal with the stress? You got 17,000 stores. I'm not sleeping at night, I've got one clinic. I'm stressed out of my mind. I'm not happy with you know, all these things I've got. And I'm like, I can't even imagine having three clinics. The guy's got 17,000 stores. They're bombing them. And uh he's like, hey, you get used to dealing with it. I've been doing this, he said, for 35 years. You get used to it. And it's like, wow, I can actually get used to like that's really that's really amazing. That's that that tension. Uh and every person I met had an incredible story. Didn't realize that these billionaires, these Guys who built these businesses had been bankrupt along the way. They had been investigated. They had been betrayed by the people closest to them. They had suffered mutiny. They had made, you know, gross strategic errors. And we had just heard, like, oh, this guy is big time. You know, I got to hear the story along the way there. And some of those stories were like, whoo-hoo-hoo! Man, there were there was no easy path there. Yeah. There was no easy path. And I think so to your point of these tensions, you just realize the tension. There was a sacrifice. I remember the guy saying, Hey, I built 400 stores in sunglasses in a few years. I lost all my hair. Stress nearly killed me.
SPEAKER_03Well, now are we saying that it's bad to lose the hair, Clint? I can't tell if that was adhesive.
SPEAKER_01I spoke about it that it was negative.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01I would have said, if I knew you, then I would have said, Well, I've got this good-looking friend Travis. He looks great with no hair. So uh you hear about the stress, you hear about the journey. Often the toll on the family is brutal. Yeah, I want to go there. And so that is one of the tensions, you know, I realized earlier on, like, hey, I can't this can't hurt my family. And I heard this beautiful saying, I think it was also um Bill Hubble's, that said, if I win at work and lose at home, I lose. But if I lose at work and I win at home, I win. Come on. And that just became a mantra to me of like, hey, if the business works or doesn't work, I'll be very sad if it doesn't work. Yeah. But if I've won at home, you know what? That's a win.
SPEAKER_03It's a win.
SPEAKER_01That's a win. And I think that's a very important one because at six o'clock, you've got four more hours of work. You're like, oh, I'd love to just get this off my plate and get this thing. But if you've already set out those priorities and where that tension's gonna fall, you're like, okay, easy decision.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, I don't have to wrestle with that every day. Like, no, I have to be home.
SPEAKER_03So good. You know. But like, I go back to the story of like, okay, so you you you are getting out of high school, right? And now it's that time between that time and getting to Aspen. What was kind of the bigger level up moment in that season?
SPEAKER_01By God's grace, got into this new program. It's a doctor of chiropractic, end up taking nearly eight years to get my doctorate, do my dissertation, do my clinical hours, all these pieces along the way. And so that was a time of just like surviving. Like, if I can get to the end of this, I know that I will naturally be elevated because I will have a profession, I'll have a new set of skills, but I wasn't very academic. Um, my yeah, hard to sit still, and I get into college and I realize these people are a lot smarter than me. Like if they can they can grind and figure stuff out. There's 50 people in our class, and I'm like, I can't keep this up. I love rugby, yeah. So I'm that's a few hours a day. Yeah, I love the church, so I'm involved in that. There's not enough hours in the day. I can't spend you know 16 hours uh related to you know medical school. And uh I just fought tooth and nail just to survive, and my class of 50 went to 40. And my class of 40 went to 30. Oh dang, so who's that hard? And my class of 30 went to 20. And by the time we graduated, I think 10 people from that 50 finished.
SPEAKER_03No way.
SPEAKER_01And all of a sudden, I mean, it was just I wasn't leveling up, I was just hanging on for their life. So um, you know, I was leveling up maybe in doing for them, it was full time. Yeah, for me, this was one of my passions. People were a passion for me, sport was a passion for me. So, how do you um get to accomplish more in less time than the people around you? You know, was probably a big level up for me at that um at that time. But then I finished with this really good training and this really good skill set, and it was you know getting to Aspen where I could really get paid and you know, where people really appreciated the ability to solve pain, yeah, you know, to help people build healthy bodies. Moving on, you know, I get the choice of do I leave the country? Yeah. Uh I'm graduating, I've got a wonderful relationship, I'm well respected because I who knows what? I love people and I'm playing well as the people.
SPEAKER_03Just on that, because I don't know, even as your buddy, if I've ever asked you this, like, how did you get those relationships when people knew of your father? Or did you disconnect and disassociate and go to like a different town? Or like how that had to been hard, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, I lived in a time, that was at a time where there wasn't Google, uh, where social media wouldn't have replayed this video again and again. I see. So there was a group of people who know, but every year it it got a little bit it got a little bit smaller. I see. Whereas today things can escalate the other way where you might be in more trouble for things 10 years ago than you were at the time. Right. So um, yeah, I was trying to shake that identity. I was trying to be, I think, I guess recognized for for sport, uh recognized for church leadership, recognized for you know something else, and like really disassociated with um my dad, even though I deeply desired a relationship with him, which is crazy. All he ever brought was turmoil, and every chance he would say, Hey, you want to talk? I'll be like, Yes, please. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Just uh Well, and and I and I bring it up because I don't want I don't want the listener to hear is what I think is just important to notice that the tension sometimes, if that was uh level one of your level up and you're on level 150 right now, it still comes back. Yeah, it's not like you just get to say, like, well, I leveled up, I'll never go back there and all that. But I'm hearing a lot of grace here. Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of forgiveness. Can you talk about like maybe if we can just pause for a second? Um, because I don't want people to just take away how to level up successfully, and I love Maxwell's quote too, but like, um how do you do it the right way?
SPEAKER_01It's important to know your purpose in life. And my main purpose is to make serving God attractive. You know, that when you see somebody who serves God, if you see my life, you go, like, hey, there's something attractive to that. Not for everybody, some people would be it wouldn't at all be. But for somebody to go, hey, like that guy loves Jesus. You know, he he seems like uh, you know, he loves people and he's good with his family and he's got some maybe business wisdom and complex golf to save his life. Just to be clear, you're pretty good. You know, um, so I think the reason for why you want to level up is very important. Lord, I want to be used by you. Come on, Lord, I want to help people, Lord, I want to walk in freedom that I'm not thinking about finances all the time. You know, I want to be able to see somebody. Yesterday I went to got a haircut, ladies telling me my story. I'm like, hey, I want to help you. You know, it's a blessing to be able to do that. To see a need and be able to fulfill it, Lord. I want to be blessed for those things. Now, not saying I don't get the desires in my heart that creep up, like I want a bigger plane. Of course, you know, and I want this, and I want, you know, those things. So those those will creep up, but you have to be able to identify Lord, why am I trying to level up? Am I doing it just to sticker to somebody? Show that girlfriend who denied me, like I'm the man, like come on. Yeah, there has to be. So I love your question, and I don't think anybody's really ever asked about that, is the reason why? Like, what's your why? If you're leveling up because you want to demonstrate God's greatness, beautiful. Like you're not gonna slip into your old way it's because you still will desire to see God's work be done. So I think the why you want to do it, and if it's to prove something to some guy, yeah, like you got to deal with that. My dad, you know, he did the best he could. I thank him. All the drama, all the trauma, I thank him because look at my life as today. Like those circumstances the Lord used um for good, and you know, I'm just grateful for that past. So the why you level up is very um important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I remember obviously it's not um, you know, anywhere as um kind of traumatic as some of the stuff we've been talking about, but like I remember I leave Deloitte, and I don't know if I ever told you this, and I'm leaving, and they didn't know that I had some hell stuff with Jaclyn. So like I wasn't just leaving to leave, like I needed to leave. I needed to choose to your point, I needed to win at home, right? And I remember uh one of the partners having like a going away party, and he goes, Travis, uh, just so you know you can be my executive assistant here in a year after you fail in finance. And I remember um that fueling me to like an unhealthy degree that I actually do think uh put me out ahead for a few years because I was just so prove you wrong, prove you wrong, is I did level up in success and business wealth making these things as I got out of Deloitte and did a few years of you know successful stuff in financial services. But I actually had to go back to level up one because I did it for the wrong reason. And it actually didn't stick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I I actually didn't know why I was doing it, other than cool, I proved this guy wrong. Well, now you're there and you feel just as empty. And I and I do wonder that's a small story, but I do wonder how many people are just continually searching for the next thing to level up because they haven't gone to level one or two to even figure out like that wasn't healthy in the first place.
SPEAKER_01Yes. You know, we see a lot of people have reached financial success on a faulty fuel. Yes, you know, the fuel that fires you up. You know, I never grew up around camping and all that type of stuff, but I love fire. I love dry leaves. You know, you throw them on the fire, and you know, it all of a sudden goes quickly, but it lasts so short. You know, you throw on a pine cones and you see all this beautiful fire, but it burns through so quickly. Yeah, you need the log, you know, you need the fuel that's going to really provide something lasting. Yeah, so I think it's important, you know, I had these people that I wanted to sort of prove wrong, but that was, you know, that wasn't the primary fuel source, you know, that was the secondary, tertiary um type of thing. So I love that you recognized, hey, that wasn't the healthy thing, but God is gracious and you know uses it to just flip a little. That person might just flipped a little button, and no, no, wait a minute, you don't realize there's greatness in me. Yeah, God has put greatness in me, I'm gonna show you. Yeah, and I think you can turn that towards Lord, help me not just do it because of Him, but help me unlock, you know, what is inside of uh what is inside of me. So I think the fuel that you're using is key because if it's the wrong fuel, you see it ends up, guys end up blowing up their life. Yeah, because they were like, hey, they got to the point way beyond the point of financial success, and then they still there's nothing left, you know, they still can't control it and still have these um these desires. A part I want to just you know make sure we discuss is the people when leveling up, the caliber of people you put around you is so important. Come on. If you are trying to level up financially, and nothing wrong with that, I've tried to level up financially. Yeah, but if the people you put around you just got there the wrong way, you know, uh cut corners that that you're gonna be naturally inclined of like, hey, that's just how you get ahead. Yeah, you'll do the same things, that's what you learn. People, I met these billionaires, and people are like billionaires are done. These guys, these guys got there because they realized they had to help billions of people.
SPEAKER_03Come on.
SPEAKER_01If they were really gonna do it, they were gonna have to create something the world really needed. You know, it was they took the hard path to get there. And you know, the people that you have to level up. If I want to get better at golf, I want to spend more time with you. Well, if I watch my sand game, but okay. If I watch you, how you warm up, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm I don't like to warm up that much. I guess you have to do that. The thoughtfulness towards the clubs, the thoughtfulness towards um the practice, towards the gear, towards all those things, you know, putting those people in your life. And that is really how you level up. We know that you are the average of your five closest people. Right. Your body fat, your income, um, your fitness level. I mean, it's crazy how this spreads across all those things. Across all those things. I can, you know, meet somebody's friends, not meet them yet, and know exactly about what you're gonna get. About what you're gonna get. So it's amazing when we have this opportunity to seek people who are ahead of us in in life in different stages. Who is an amazing parent? Like, who is that person that you like? Hey, that dad is just so freaking patient, yes, so wise with his kids. I would have lost it there, and I saw him sit down with the kid, have a really good conversation. Like, I don't need to hang around with that guy. We need to just go on play date together. We need to like on a holiday together. How about a family holiday? So I think get the fuel right, yeah. You know, the right reasons. And then secondly, as you do, it's it's gonna be around, it's gonna be people that are really gonna help you do that. You can't hang around billionaires and not think differently, not make decisions differently that are gonna go, wait a minute, I would have just I would have done this. They would never have done that. Totally. This is how they would have thought about it, you know. So um, that's just been a hugely important factor that I only realize now um the importance of it. Thank God I pursued those things. And sometimes one of those five is needs to be biblical characters, totally, you know. Uh those people that you identify with, like, hey, this person, my Gideon, my Daniel, my Joseph, you know, I'm thinking of being around those people.
SPEAKER_03Give the listener like a little bit more of your Aspen days of like, so who were you around? And you know, Howard Schultz, maybe in business, and he kind of taught you like, if you're gonna get high in business, you're going to have to deal with the tension of just bad news all the time. People are bombing his stores. Like that, that's unbelievable. And he's sitting there just talking and asking you questions. That's learned, right? He's learned to manage it. So, can you talk about some more of those type of stories of the people?
SPEAKER_01These billionaires are fascinating people because they've often had a view of the world that either they had before or they've developed along this um this journey. It doesn't mean they do all the things right. There's many of them where I was like, whoa, I know I don't want that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, I know I don't want to have five houses and have the guilt and the stress and all that type of thing. I'm like, man, I know I don't want to head down that uh pathway. But uh Barry Sternlicht, incredibly good to me, uh, founded Starwood Hotels. Yeah, yeah. Uh all these incredible hotels around the world. And Barry, he grinds, he reads. He's got this much reading in his bag at all times. Wow. He's got somebody driving him, you know, from work office, and he is reading. He is he is getting so much information that you're like, oh my gosh, five years of that, of course he's gonna get ahead. Yeah. Who consuming that much information is not gonna have a significant advantage? You know, most of us would read that much in for three days and we'd be like, oh, I know everything. Imagine doing that for decade after decade. He's still doing that today. Yeah I mean, so there's there's no um there's no question. Uh Walter Isaacson, fascinating, um, you know, written Steve Jobs' book, Elon Musk's book, uh, Benjamin Franklin, uh, these people, that the curiosity that I get from him. I'm like just the the wondering, the why, you know, behind those types of things. He's viewpointed, asking questions, being able to uh look at the world, uh getting to know the Saudi royal family, traveling with the Saudi royal family and seeing, you know, the pursuit of um of pleasure. Yeah, you know, you're like, hey, that's really cool for a week a year, but it's you know, maybe two weeks a year. I don't want to live like that, but it's really interesting to see what they what they put their priority and their thoughtfulness about who they bring into their uh circle. What's amazing is how few of the people have people in their life they can really trust. Yeah, very sad, very hard. Um, so those are just some of the the things that start to come away, but really the the dealing with adversity, the dealing with difficulty. These guys were very comfortable that hey, I couldn't hang out. Ken Griffin, he's trading in college, he's not going out. He's literally trading, he's set up a satellite on his roof because that's what he's doing. He's managing money in college when everybody else is going out to party. He's already thinking, when I come out of here, what do I need to have happened? Yeah, I need a good name on the door, I need to have a success record, all those um pieces. So, you know, the the part of leveling up as I started off with new level, new devil, or uh you have to give up to go up. There's very clearly these things at any part to level up to invite that new friendship in, that's it, you have to make space of a friendship you're gonna let go. Which is so hard. You know, so hard. But when when there's something beautiful that you really want to go after, like it becomes easier. You're like, okay, if that's where I'm trying to get to, these relationships that I'm in here, they're just not gonna get me there. Yeah, yes, I love them, they're comfortable, but you know what? I ain't going out. Yeah, I'm not gonna drink, I'm not going to. There's just very clear things that I'm just not going to be. Yeah, you know, I wasn't going to be the cool person. Like it was very clear in college. Like, I I'm not going to be the cool person. I'm going to survive. You're going to get you're going to get the degree. I'm going to get the degree. In Aspen, I'm going to miss out on skiing every day. I'm going to get to ski for an hour or two when other people are skiing for eight hours. That's just the reality of it. I I missed um eight summers in a row. I lived in the most beautiful town with the most beautiful summer. I missed all eight because I was in the office from seven in the morning till six and I'd go home and be with the family.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01And uh, you know, by the end of the season, like the summer was over and missed it. Yeah. But boy, was it worth it because I was investing in these wonderful relationships. I was learning. I was at the feet of some of the you know the smartest uh people in the world was the opportunity. So what is that thing that you need to, you know, that you're chasing, hopefully with the right reason? And then what are the things that you have to do? I've got in the notes app, best year of my life. I started in 2018. I wrote 2018, best year of my life, and I wrote down every great thing that God had done. And then in 19, I wrote best year of my life, 2019, and I wrote down these lists are getting so long. 26 is insane, but at the bottom of it is what am I gonna give up?
SPEAKER_02Come on.
SPEAKER_01Like, what am I gonna be able to what am I gonna need to walk away from to create the space, to create the time, to create um the opportunity for me to actually take a step up?
SPEAKER_03So I love this because it's it's it's what's what's the fuel? Who are the people? And now it's what am I going to give up? These are all part of the tension of leveling up. I want to go to maybe a fourth. Do you remember the first time you were like, I'm gonna have to just accept that in the tension of leveling up, people are gonna screw me, people are gonna do bad things, people are gonna whatever? Because I'm thinking of your Aspen story of like the clinic and like you finally start having success. I mean, eight years of school, you leave all of South Africa. You come to Aspen, you're grinding, grinding, grinding, you finally have it somewhere, and then to level up from there, there's yet another person sitting in your way that wants to do some um, I would say inappropriate things to try to take you down.
SPEAKER_01Well, the first thing I want to say, Travis, is I'm just like everybody else, I desire comfort. You know, I I want to sit on the couch and I want to eat chocolate. Hey, thanks for saying it because I don't know that I would have believed it if you know I have had I've seen you have a chocolate or two before. No, I am fighting desires all day, every day. Yeah. Like just just like everybody else. So it's not um that I don't, you know, don't have those pieces. I have seen something so beautiful on the other side, however, that I'm like, oh, that is so beautiful that I really want that even more than I want the things that my flesh wants. And my flesh wins wins some days. Um but it's a fight every uh every single day. So uh I think the I have this wonderful opportunity to open this beautiful clinic, and the local chiropractors all come out and write fake stories, have me investigated by the FBI, the IRS, the INS, immigration, another department of IRS with the sales tax department, and I literally have the FBI knock on my door to investigate. I haven't heard this part. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03And it's all because effectively they're jealous because you're leveling up and taking their business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I wasn't even taking their business. We were building this destination clinic for people to come to from around the world, which is actually what happened. We weren't interested in the chiropractors doing a quick little neck pop. We were like these robust programs that you spend three, four hours a day in our clinic. Nothing like what they were doing. But they literally lied, made up stories, had me investigated. And I don't know if you know stress, but when the FBI knock on your door, you think you're in a movie? I'm like, you must have the wrong. I'm just uh I'm just this I'm Clint. I like help people get out of pain. Your back looks like it needs some work, Mr. FBI agent. I'm telling you, and when the FBI guy, he had gone to all the spots I'd worked in town and already like investigated. I'm like, this is crazy. The newspaper, a lady calls and she says, Oh, by the way, they're doing a big piece on you tomorrow. Oh, jeez. I'm like, what me? I call the newspaper, he's like, Oh, yeah, I've been trying to get hold of you. I'm like, where? Like, my number's in the phone book. My email, you haven't tried anything. Right. Uh so well, if you'll give me a photo, I'll listen to your side of the story. So I'm like, I've got to tell the story. So I go in and tell him, hey, I'm just in the business of helping people, not breaking any laws. Yeah. You know, these people are out, you know, to get me. He doesn't hear Aaron, but puts my face this big on the newspaper. Biggest picture I've ever seen in the Aspen Daily News to this day. I'm driving around that morning in tears, in panic. Oh, but I'm taking the newspapers out of the free newspapers, and I'm going from one place to the next and I'm dropping them in the trash. Okay. Yeah. There's more. Everybody's in Aspen, everybody reads the paper. And for 10 years afterwards, people are like, dude, you were the guy in so much trouble. The Syntregis called me and like, hey, Clint, we can't have bad publicity. Literally, the next one says back pain at the Sint Regis. And uh they're like, hey, we're gonna have to end the contract. Oh my, because that's where your clinic was within Regis. We hadn't even opened yet. We were borrowed all this money and all this goodwill to open this clinic. And here these guys are like, these, you know, local clowns are doing this and lying. I mean, just straight up lying. You know, they said I was in the country legally, that I was telling people all these things and I wasn't paying taxes. I had to prove to all these departments, like that's crazy. I'm a I'm a good human being. Most people are not going to be happy with your success. And you don't want to believe that. You don't want to believe that because you're like, I'm a good person, man. I tried hard, I worked hard to get here. I yeah, there's so much I gave up along the way to get here. But you you know, you don't expect it, but you are really excited for what is ahead.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, that's what keeps me going. Like, what is ahead? We've built beautiful things in Zambia where we see in God's hand, where we've got 13,000 families, that their lives are very different today because of the blessing we received that we were able to share. So keeping your eye on the prize, expecting you are going to be lied about, attacked, just a matter of time. And it's the people the you know, the ones that you really loved and helped that, you know, just like first in line to stab you. The first in line to stab you, it hurts so much. You know, the person online who doesn't know you write something who cares, but it's that person who were like, no, wait a minute, man, you were in my house. Yeah, you saw when I was going up to my office every night after putting the kids to to bed to work and do these things, and like you've got beef with me? Like, yeah, what's the what's the deal? But it's worth it, man, to live out God's purpose, to see God do great and abundant thing. I can't tell you the people that I open text from now. I'm like, I can't believe these amazing people are texting me, asking me for advice. Are you are you are you kidding me? I'm just a a South African rugby player who, you know, managed to struggle his way through college and just believe that God is who he said he was.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. How have you forgiven all those people on Aspen or boy? I know a lot of other stories over the last decade. Like, say untrue things about you, try to stir up a bunch of things, try to whatever, get you uh sue you, do different things. Like, how have you learned um still be so positive?
SPEAKER_01Travis, I've written the book that I'll publish later this year called The Twelve Laws of Aging Differently, and it's spirit, soul, and body. We've been really focused on the body with our clinics, sure, but really getting to spirit and soul, and there's there's two of the laws that I have watched now for decades that I'll just share here. Number one is forgiveness. Jesus uses the scariest language. If you don't forgive, I can't forgive you. Come on. Like, what? Like, but you know how bad those people were, like, it doesn't matter. You know, it doesn't say unless they were really mean to you. Then I understand. Like, so forgiveness is an absolute mandate. I had to forgive my father, I've had to forgive, and I've also met people along the way that have had way worse happen to them than me. Come on. I know a girl who's neighbors in Rwanda killed her brother, her sister, her mother, her father, her grandparents, her aunts and uncles. The neighbor she grew up across the road from knew her whole life. She killed everybody in her family.
SPEAKER_03My goodness.
SPEAKER_01She forgave them.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01I like, so I got no right to hold anything against anybody because God has forgiven so much of me. I've got this lovely little hack of uh how do I know if I've forgiven somebody? I have to pray, God will you bless them. Yeah, and I'm like, I've forgiven them. And they're like, God, will you oh bless?
SPEAKER_00For every enemy.
SPEAKER_01I can't say it. And that's just my little marker with that I happened. I'm like, Lord, I want you to bless them. But immediately your mind jumps to, but then if they did well, they wouldn't realize what they did to me. Like, I can't like Lord bless them. Come on. For years, I said, Lord, bless my dad. He's in heaven, but bless him there. Everything in heaven. I believe he's there. He had a moment to come right with the Lord at the end of his life.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01So forgiveness is is a must. People who have hurt me the worst would be shocked to know how much I've forgiven them.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I I would argue, that's back to this whole um leveling up tension thing. I don't think you actually truly level up unless in each of those there's there's both forgiveness. That's true. But then also um let's not let's not assume that we're perfect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We need to ask for forgiveness in every one of our level ups.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. We have been I ask for forgiveness all the time. So um I need a I need that forgiveness. So I think that is critical, and you're right. I think you can't take that next step up. Not truly. Not truly. You'll you'll you'll fake your way, you'll climb the ladder. Exactly, exactly with it. So people would be shocked at how much I've forgiven them. And sometimes people I've bumped into them and they like, oh the other way. I'm like, hey, I forgive you. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_02Wow, man.
SPEAKER_01And they like we can talk. I'm like, yeah, yeah, how things. I don't want to hang out with you. Yeah, but I do forgive you. But yeah, I I've got no problem with it. So that's number one. Um, the second is gratitude. Gratitude is so powerful. You can have two people in the exact same circumstances, yeah, having completely different realities. One is filled with joy, one is loving their life, one of them you want to hang out with, one of them is being promoted at work, one of them is people are asking for advice from, one of them is literally feeling joy and peace. Yeah. The other person in the exact same circumstances is angry, is upset, is you know, resentful, going through all those things, and it's just cultivating gratitude. And I learnt it from my mom. My mom is remarkable. My mom was finding we were like sleeping in a car, yeah, and my mom was finding positive things to say. Like, are you mad? Our life sucks. My mom, I joke with her, she hates it. But I say, um, you know, there was this time when we were growing up, and I said, Mom, are we poor? And she said, Shut up, go back to sleep and close the dumpster. And she's like, I was never that bad, and it was never that bad. But I'd love to just mess with her with that. But um, gratitude. Yeah, people who have gratitude uh sleep better at night. People who have gratitude have lower inflammatory markers. I mean, you literally see it in their body. People who you just want to hang out with, you don't even realize this because they're grateful. They find the good in things, you know. They um there are these findings. We get blown away often when we travel to poor places on mission trips, and you see the person, we visit our town. The first time we're there, and we got on video and said, Tell us about where you live. He says, It's paradise. This is paradise. Like, oh my gosh, I need to uh I need to do that. My pastor takes me to uh his golf course and he showed it to me with such joy and pride and excitement. Look at this, look at this fairway here. I was like, oh my goodness, my golf course is wildly better. Yeah, and I don't appreciate it like this guy appreciates his. Are you like this is unbelievable? Yeah. So um I think gratitude fostering, you know, helps you level up, gives you the springboard, helps you give that little bounce of where you want to go. And it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful fuel. I think gratitude is actually a energy source.
SPEAKER_03Totally. So many different parts of your story I think people can relate to in their own right. And like our hope is of course, by listening, um, you know, you out there that you'll be able to see these tensions in your own life. And then through Clint's story, like accept that um you will never solve them. I want to give the listener just a little insight of like um, you know, your daughter, Gabby, your youngest daughter, has a traumatic health event, and you're not happy with um, you know, what you're being told by these doctors. And so you effectively start a company called Second MD so that you can find that cure. And Gabby's doing amazing now. What a story, what a sweetheart she is. But like, you know, that then led you down this path of like talking about a level up for you into a different part of business, got you out of Aspen, um, you know, and you start to really develop this Second MD business, then the Lord calls you to sell it. Hundreds of millions of dollars in your bank account, and then the Lord calls you to just continue on this um health journey, right? And all these things of um how you've used that and today with Medici and all of that, my goodness, could we do two hours on just that success story? How do you, Clint, like keep the striving and the right fuel to just keep leveling up? But then also like, how are you using all of that gift and blessing? Because I do think uh when you end the chapter of that level and you go to the next one, I think if you can't look back and say, here's all the good I did, whether it's through the job you chose or the way that you can give and all those things, well then was it a real level up? Like, does any of us even care that you leveled up? Because you probably leveled up for bad things. So you kind of level down for the world, right? So, like, how do you do is there a framework of how you manage that tension?
SPEAKER_01Well, my wife would laugh at you saying, you know, can you still level up? My wife would say, I could be a better husband.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like I could still level up as a husband. Totally. My children would say, Great dad, he could level up as a dad. You know, there's no uh I could we know um we know that. Uh as a friend, I think I'm a good friend to a lot of people. I hope I'm a good friend to you. I I think you'd all agree there's I could still level up, you know. So I think there's always the opportunity for growth until we really are walking like Jesus, and you can literally go and put your hand on somebody and heal them, yeah, or give somebody a prophetic word and really walk in that. Like we've got there's lots of room to still go and um level up. I think you know, people who do it the right way in the financial setting move from uh what we'd call financial success, and I always put finance because there's different successes, um, to significance, you know. So that last stage moving from survival to stability to success to significance. And uh, in that significant part now is you know, are you are you leaving a legacy? I recently went to Alaska with 24 amazing gentlemen, and it was started by a guy who's passed away, and the 20 people of the 24 who knew him just told stories about him. Wow. Unbelievable stories. He helped this waitress go to dental school, he helped this organization start, he helped that organization start. He just unbelievable. And this legacy lives on carrying his flame and his torch now for decades, maybe even generations. So thinking through that ability to uh move into significance of how do you help even more people as you have the financial resources, as you have the wisdom, maybe the platform, you know, what are you gonna do? Like what's your next level up? So I think we've got to continue to say, Lord, you know, is this the time that I can get comfortable?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The answer is no. Never, never. You know, um retirement is not a biblical um construct or something set around, you know, giving people financial security, maybe. Uh, but we are called to do our greatest, our greatest work. I'm gonna start writing books, I'm gonna start interviewing the most unbelievable people. There's a gentleman who hiked Everest at 70, 75, and 80 and skied down. He's training at 88 to go back for one more. Like, wow. You know, let's keep inspiring. You know, we've got a we've got a long way to go. God has given us, each one of us. I've never met a human being in my life that if I spent some time with them, you didn't find something in them that you were like, wow, that's awesome. That person has a gift. Yeah, that person has something in there that God has planted um in them. God's given some people one, three, five talents. He's given everybody talents, you know, and he expects us to do something with them. So let's keep inspiring. You keep challenging me. Clint, what's next? Um, Travis, what's next? Are you doing it for the right reason? Um, where we're going, look at you. Book, podcast. This is you continuing to grow, share your impact, take other people along the journey with you. It's uh incredible. So thank you for this. You've got me fired up.
SPEAKER_03Come on. Well, brother, um, speaking of fired up, this is where we're gonna close. Uh I can't say enough of watch Clint's story, second MD the business, and on, and you will be more impressed than almost anyone you probably ever met. And I love that we spent 30 seconds on it. That is just so because you know the man Clint, you know my dearest and best buddy here. Uh, but I think there is some real truth there. Like, what is your fuel? Who are those people around you? What are you willing to give up? What do you do when the inevitable, really tough things happen that when you level up, you're automatically inviting? And then how do you have this life of gratitude, this life of forgiveness, so that your level ups can actually then be each level. I almost hear from you, Clint, like it's it's more impact-driven. There's more you're trying to do for others. And I just think that that's such a beautiful, like, that's what it should be in the world. The people with the most influence should be doing the most influential things. And you are, brother. And so thank you for that. And so um, close us down. I'm a listener. I say, Clint, so how do I manage this thing again?
SPEAKER_01I want to level up. How? Firstly, don't settle. Do not settle. You have to rage against the dying of the light.
SPEAKER_03Come on.
SPEAKER_01Clint Eastwood in his 90s says, Every day I get up and I work to keep the old man out. Come on. Fighting to keep that old man out. I has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the hearts of men the things that the Lord has prepared for those who love him. We have to raise our sights above the circumstances. We have to switch off the news. We have to look well beyond the people on Instagram, and we have to say, Lord, what do you have for me? I know you've created me for more than where I am now. And maybe you're in a great place. God's created you for more than that. Don't settle. Level up. Go and see everything that God has for you.
SPEAKER_03Come on. Well, everyone, um, I got nothing. Just play that over the last 30 seconds to a minute. Every time you're feeling down, you'll feel better. Um, Clint, the tension of leveling up, the perfect guest to be on. I hope this helped you. And remember, these are not problems any of us can solve. And as you heard from Clint and you've heard from the most wise guests we have, we're all just trying our best out here, team. And we're just trying to just give each other frameworks in which to manage these things because we're all on the journey together. But when we admit it, when we're vulnerable, and then we actually take action, we can win this fight and we can have that perspective and we can manage these tensions. Thanks for listening in.
