SPEAKER_01 0:00

So, Rob, the nickname that you've held once, maybe still today, is the Fire Sprinkler. Can you give us and the listeners a little bit of how you got that nickname?

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Yeah, so this one takes me back, Travis, to uh high school. Uh so it's homecoming week, and um we're decorating the hallways, you know, because you got to put up all the things on the walls, and you know, you got all the signs, and um and so somebody decided that they should stick flags in the fire sprinklers, you know, in the ceiling.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Smart one, it's a great high school decision.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Oh, yeah. I mean, that that was brilliant. Yeah, why wouldn't we put flags in the sprinklers? So I'm walking through, I'm seeing that, I'm thinking, huh, that's probably not a good idea. So as I'm slipping this out, now now by the way, it's in the evening, so it's like eight o'clock at night. You know, the engineer of the school has gone home. Okay. So as I'm slipping that flag out, it sets it off. And then the entire hallway sprinklers come on, and we flood the entire second floor of the school. Oh no. I mean, water running down the walls to the floor below, and you know, we have to get the engineer to come back from home at you know nine o'clock at night to even turn it off. And yeah, it was uh I held that one for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Now, if you still saw one of these high school friends, would they call you Rob or fire sprinklers?

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. I, you know, it it was relatively short-lived, especially because I wasn't the put one that put it in there, but I paid for it for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

I love it. Well, thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Let's be honest. Life's messy. Decisions are complex, and it's not all black and white. But these are the decisions that shape our growth. Welcome to the tension. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

All right, everyone, welcome to the tension podcast. Boy, do we have a good one today. Mr. Rob West is with us. He's the CEO of Kingdom Advisors. He has a radio show, Faith in Finance. So many amazing things we're going to cover today. But today's tension is around the tension of impact. And I thought, what better person than Rob West to talk about it, leading thousands of advisors that are literally trying to make sure that they're keeping their mission and everything focused on why they are even in the job, what impact are they making, while needing to make returns, while needing to fulfill clients' goals. And he's leading that entire movement. And so it's gonna be really, really fun to hear from Rob. But Rob, thanks for being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Travis, what a treat. I'm really looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

So, Rob, give the listeners. I mean, I gave a little bit there, but give us a little background, a little personal, professional. Who is Rob West?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yeah, I'd be happy to. I have the privilege of leading, as you said, a movement of financial advisors who bring their faith with them to work and counsel their clients out of a biblical worldview, uh, bringing God's word to bear in their financial uh advice, helping their clients to find enough, helping them prepare the next steward and leaving a legacy, and then helping them direct wealth for Kingdom Impact, whether it's through generosity or their investments. And, you know, it's so much fun because I often get the call, Travis, from an advisor saying, Rob, I was ready to get out of this business. I'm tired of helping people build bigger barns, but this changes everything. And so it's just been so fun to watch these advisors go on this journey, see their clients respond to this idea that money is a tool that can be used for God's glory and for kingdom impact, for the advisors to journey with them in that uh in that space, and then to watch this entire industry kind of come around the advisor, where we now have universities training the next generation, and we've got the large firms that have fully embraced this, and we've got Christians in the pews saying, Yeah, I want an advisor who shares my values and understands the counsel of scripture. And so we're just having a ball, uh just seeing this entire space explode in a really positive way.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Well, and and not to make a commercial for Kingdom Advisors, but you know, I um I went independent 2019 out of a big shop. And uh one of the great things going to independent is you you get to have a lot more decision-making authority. One of the bad things is you lose a lot of community and especially like-minded community. And I think that um, as I I think it was what, three, four years ago is the first time I went to one of your conferences, Rob, and to see three, four, five thousand people and five hundred young people that are just getting out of college all standing up and saying, Hey, I may, I may be doing it a little bit differently, but the one foundational principle is I believe in the Lord and I believe that I'm called to steward. And I think that um, yeah, it's just it's been such a gift to me, to a lot of my advisors. So, Rob, thanks for the work, my goodness. Um, and especially since you've taken over as CEO, what uh what blessings the Lord has given you guys in the growth numbers. But give us a little bit, Rob, of uh your upbringing. Like uh tell us who Rob the man is.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah, I appreciate it. So I grew up with a dad who was a money manager, so he managed money, he was an arbitrage, and then he was a dividend stock picker. And so I got to watch that throughout my journey. Um, my mom and dad were Christ followers, and so I grew up in an amazing Christian home and um really was just whole interested in this idea of finance. And so went off to college, got a degree in finance, and during my college years was when I read two books that really shaped my view on this area of finance. One was by uh the Kingdom Advisors co-founder, Ron Blue, who you know, uh, the book Master Your Money. And then the other was by the late Larry Briquette. Larry was the other co-founder of Kingdom Advisors, passed away in 2003, but his book was uh Your Finances in Changing Times. But in both cases, it was just really this idea that money issues are heart issues, and that God's word has a lot to say about this topic of money, 2,300 verses. But Ron tells this story in Master Your Money that just blew me away. You know, he talks about that he had made several trips to Africa as a part of his professional career, and he tells a story where he was sitting on the top of a hill alongside a pastor, and he asked the pastor as they looked out kind of over this massive landscape in front of them. He said, What is the biggest barrier to the spread of the gospel in this part of the world? Yeah. And he he expected him to say, you know, tribalism or you know, just a lack of infrastructure or you know, any number of things. And the pastor said materialism. And Ron was like, wait a minute, materialism, I wasn't expecting that. Tell me more. He said, well, if uh a man has, you know, a thatched roof, he wants a tin roof, and he's got one cow, he wants two. And he went on to say, you know, this is really what is holding back this this the spread of the gospel. And Ron said, at that moment, I realized that money issues are ultimately heart issues.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

And it doesn't matter what context you're in, that you know, if money is a good gift from a good God, but it can quickly become an idol. I mean, it was the late Tim Keller that said, of of all the counterfeit gods, money is the chief counterfeit god. And so that just, you know, it rocked my world. And it was really at that moment that I thought, you know what, this is an area that I want to dedicate my life to, the intersection of faith and finance. And so I ended up uh graduating from college and going back and joining my dad. He was semi-retired at the time, and he said, Hey, if you want to come back, let's build a financial services firm serving a lot of people who want to be really generous, and let's do it together as partners. And so I had a decade run where my dad and I built this wealth management firm. We had just the best time working together, and um, it was really where I saw all of this uh, you know, right in front of my eyes, just this intersection of faith and finance.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Come on, man. Well, uh, first of all, I I think um, yeah, what Ron said in that book, the the the answer of materialism, it's so interesting. You know, this idea of the tension. I mean, one of the reasons we're doing this podcast is to make sure people understand even that, which is contentment. We are so prone to wonder that one day you feel like you're like, gosh, no, I don't need those things. And then somehow it sneaks its ugly head back in and we start to get back off, and it's this nonstop management of tension. But I think it's so amazing that that's actually what inspired you. Because I think that that says a lot of uh what you're doing now in finance. But so continue on. So, how did you so you take that over, you have the 10-year run. How did you get to CEO of Kingdom Advisors?

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah. So about halfway through that journey, uh Ron Blue and Larry Briquette uh founded what became Kingdom Advisors in in 2003. And a couple of years into that, I heard Ron was traveling the country, kind of telling the story, sharing the vision. And as you might imagine, as soon as he described what he was building at Kingdom Advisors, it immediately captured my attention because it was really what I was doing, what my dad and I were doing at our firm. And what was interesting is the reason Ron left his firm to start Kingdom Advisors is he saw the incredible influence and impact of what at the time was 90 advisors at a firm called Ronald Blue and Company, it's now Blue Trust, but uh he saw the impact they were having with a couple of billion under management, with literally, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars flowing into God's kingdom as a result of the advice that these clients, these advisors were giving. Right. And Larry challenged him. He said, Ron, you know, what if this isn't the end of your career? What if this was really just another stepping stone and you're supposed to go create an army of thousands, maybe tens of thousands of advisors who really have surrendered their hearts and their lives to God's purposes and now see their practice as their ministry. And yes, they would give excellent, competent financial advice, the best, but also do it with this foundation of biblical wisdom. And that was exactly what he did. So I heard him share that vision. I immediately said, How do I sign up? And um started into the training and you know, started building a personal relationship with Ron. And he started asking, All right, when are you moving to Atlanta to join us? And I knew that I needed to finish well with the firm. God wasn't yet releasing me, but in uh in 2009, uh after my dad um uh lost a battle with cancer, but uh ended up being victorious because now he uh is is with Jesus. Um uh I sold the firm and uh moved to Atlanta to join the team at Kingdom Advisors.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Wow. And then uh you worked and worked and worked and worked, and then it was um how many years ago that you uh were promoted to the CEO job?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yeah, so it's been uh about four years now. I've I've been in this seat working alongside an incredible team, just uh discipling advisors and leading this emerging industry of Christian financial advice. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Well, and shout out to uh Ron Blue's team, his family, him. I mean, you think about this tension of impact, which I want you to define here in a second as we dive in. But um, talk about someone, I mean, I'm trying to picture myself, you know, um, really feeling like I'm scaling, I'm growing, I'm at billions under management, right? I got these great teammates, I'm making impact, and being called to a bigger impact by leaving that impact behind. Uh, my goodness, do you have to be mission-driven to make that choice? Because back to Tim Keller's, you know, book you reference counterfeit gods, it's so easy to just sit in the comfort. And I think um the um opposite, right, of uh managing the tension of impact is to sit into comfort. I think I can promise you, if you're sitting in comfort, you're getting a big zero, likely, in the management of the tension of impact. So let's go there. Um, you know, Rob, there's so many places someone's mind as a listener can go to of this push-pull that must occur in every tension we go over on this podcast. But specifically for the tension of impact, how would you define it and why is it a tension?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Well, I would just say it's the pull between pursuing results, which can look like growth or revenue, uh, even excellence, and never losing sight of the people and the purpose those results exist to serve. So it's the pull between pursuing results and not losing sight of the people and the purpose those results exist to serve. And I think, you know, we have to look no further than just the business of financial advice to see that on full display because the business model of a wealth manager is generally assets under management. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Scoreboard, scoreboard, scoreboard.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah, exactly. And and yet two of the distinctives that I shared a moment ago of a kingdom advisor are number one, they're helping their clients to find enough, which means they're setting a finish line, and they're moving significant capital into God's kingdom through their generosity. And all of that leads to less AUM.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Yeah. Every time you give it away, that's less you can charge a management fee for.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

That's right. And so the calling and the paycheck can seemingly pull in opposite directions, and yet the best advisors choose the calling anyway. Now, we'll get to what happens when you do that. And we've actually we spent about six months studying the outcomes both in the advisor's life and his or her client's life when they lead with values and impact and and biblical wisdom, and it's it's massive, and there's a a real business case to do it. But you know, as you kind of walk in the door, and and this is true really of any industry, is that every industry has a scorecard.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

And you know, the the money scorecard that our culture hands all of us personally is real. And we want to move from accumulation to impact. And when we do that, it it allows us to really be free to pursue all that God has for us.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Brother, so good. Um, yeah, and I think what I find to be so difficult is we also need to just like the reason we're even calling this the tension of impact is we don't want to just sit back and say we do a bunch of good. Like you should still want to, and if the Lord gave you certain abilities and a platform, be the best.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Win. Win championships. Like you don't have to be, and that's a tension of itself, but it's like you don't always have to be the nice person, quote unquote nice. That's that's worth defining, that is just like, well, I'm just about impacting this, that, and the other, which means I gotta keep prudent, relaxed, and chill. Like, you could still be a killer, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Totally, yeah, that's exactly right. You know, both in terms of winning and terms of of growth and building. I mean, you know, that's part of of God's virtuous cycle, right? He creates out of nothing. We then take the creation and order it and improve it, and you know, we're able to be co-creators with him, and that creates productivity and that creates wealth that then can be given away or invested in a way that creates human flourishing. And that's a virtuous cycle. And we were created to be workers before the fall. And so, you know, that's I think one of the ways that that we honor the Lord is by you know being the best. You know, one of the things Ron always said that I love is he said, Christian and competent is not an oxymoron. You know, we should be, as Christ's followers, the very best at what we do when we do it. And so when we lead with values, that's not in any way uh an excuse for providing less than stellar work. We should provide always with excellence, but we do need to recognize that often the metric that pays us is not the one that fulfills us.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

And so that's where we then get into the management of the tension once we accept the that reality.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, brother, uh, so good. So, I mean, you know, we we've talked to you a little bit about this. I'm sure you've heard a few of our other uh tensions, but you know, we we believe that for any of us, we'll never solve this, right? As Andy Stanley said, right? These aren't problems to solve, these are tensions to manage. And our framework uh that we have here on the podcast is in order to even like recognize that it's a tension, you have to see it. You have to sit there and actually see it. Then you you end up trying to solve it and all that, but you eventually accept, no, no, no, it is in fact an intention, and then finally you get to that third step of management. Tell me in your life, like, and you could go specifically here in wealth management, you know, because obviously you had you know experience there or in leading kingdom advisors. Like, when though for you is the first time you're like, dang, this is a tension that is not solvable, but if we all kind of lock arms to manage it, we can actually make a better world. Like, when's the first time you can remember seeing this tension?

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah. So I mean, as soon as I got into this business, I realized quickly what the financial services industry core scorecard was. So here I am building the firm with my dad. Success had a number, it was AUM, it was growth. And again, that's not a bad thing. I was fresh out of college, we're ready to kind of blaze trails here, and you know, we're serving a lot of people, we're seeing a lot of growth. That's a good thing. But I also realized very quickly that, you know, what I the moments that really stayed with me as I was sitting with a family and helping them, you know, work through their fears and and talking about their legacy and talking about the purpose. Yeah, you know, those were the moments that were ultimately why I got into that business. Because remember, I I was on this journey to understand this idea that money issues are heart issues. So the accumulation moments, as exciting as they were, paled in comparison to me seeing what happened as I came alongside a family and helped them work through what money as a tool could accomplish in their lives. And that was far more rewarding. And so I just began to accept the fact that that this tension was real. And although accumulation tells you what you have, impact tells you what it's for. And ultimately, that's what motivated me to get out of bed every morning, is that I could come alongside these families and help them give it away and propel the gospel to the ends of the earth and to love their neighbor down the street, and you know, to get involved in in solving some of the world's greatest problems. And, you know, uh the ultimately, I think when you accept that, especially in this industry, and every industry has its scorecard, so so we could apply this all over the place. But that was when I began to see it and then accept it and say, okay, this is real. You know, let's manage this tension because what I'm after is really on the impact side of the ledger.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Come on, man. Boy, quote of the year there. Um, that that's like title of a book. So, so Rob, um, that makes a ton of sense. And and I want you to just just real quick, because you've got five, six, seven hundred, however many college grads, part of your organization. You know, I've got different organizations that have really young, awesome people getting into this industry. Like, um, so you got to see it coming out of school. You got to see the whole chasing after the AUM number and these things versus every time you spent time with that family and just talked about their goals, what it did to your heart and your satisfaction, and kind of seeing this, it's always going to be that push-pull. But like, do you have any just kind of going off tangentially here, real quick, speaking directly to those young people? Do you have any advice for them of mentally how maybe they can see this and accept it earlier, maybe than you and I did?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

I mean, I think one of the things that's so exciting, and you see this, I'm sure, every day, Travis, and and what you're building there at 49 and and the other organizations, is that this next generation is far more about meaning and impact than they are paycheck. Yeah. You know, they want to have purpose, they want to be authentic to who they are, and they want to make a difference in people's lives. And that's far more important to them than the number of zeros on that paycheck. And that's amazing. And I think that's the key is to really, you know, as you start out, think about your why. You know, what is it you truly want to accomplish and how do you measure success? And again, as we've said, there's nothing wrong with building an incredible business. And there's nothing wrong, you know. I mean, the bigger that business is, the more people you can employ. But I also want them to know that they need to protect their margin because I think the hidden cost of chasing any scorecard is hustle. You know, every dollar committed, every hour filled, I mean, maxed out can look like success, but without margin, every disruption becomes a crisis and every opportunity becomes an inconvenience. And life can get out of balance. I mean, just look at Jesus' ministry in the Gospels. I mean, what looked like Like distractions from Jesus' ministry often was the ministry, right? The woman who touched his robe while he was on the way to Jairus' house and Bartimaeus shouting over the crowd and the children brought to him after a long day. I mean, they had margin to stop, and he did too. And the impact was in the interruption. And I think, you know, we need to, we don't want to wait 20 years into our professional career to find this.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Because there's just so much carnage that we can leave in the process. But if we go into uh our careers, understanding that margin creates space for rest and faith and generosity, capacity allows us to say yes when God prompts. Then, you know, if we don't have that, we're going to burn ourselves out and we're going to miss out on the impact that God has placed along the way. So I would just say that's a big idea, especially early for you to understand.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah, I think about the book give and take, uh, the ruthless elimination of hurry, some of these um books that are pointing to this. But I'm so glad you said it. I don't know that, Rob, I've ever heard someone say that to advice, but I think it's so true because um you know enough about my story. We've known each other for years now, of like, I was the guy that you're saying. I came out of Deloitte and I saw that there was a scorecard, which was how much revenue, how many advisors, right? These types of things. And I chased after it in 85-hour work weeks. And the impact I almost felt uh was I'll get to the impact later. And and I do want to just sit for a moment to say, um, for all of us out there, I'll I'll tell you the story that doesn't go so well, that does have the carnage that Rob is talking about. But insert in your own story the thing that you're so chasing after, if you put into that sentence, but I'll I'll do the impact stuff later, I think you find yourself in a ton of trouble. And of course, that that was my story. I end up having a brain surgery because I went so hard and put my identity in so one thing for good purpose. And I may have even said the right things about this is for God and this, that, and the other. And I don't want to say that all of my intentions weren't good, but my execution was bad. And so I don't know, Rob, like do you feel like um when people say, I'm sure you see this all the time, whether it's with their giving, whether it's with like once I hit this AUM number, I mean, do you see that a lot of uh the justification of I'll do that impact stuff once I once I climb this mountain or that mountain?

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Jeff Mannion, teaching pastor at Ada Bible Church, his book is called Satisfied. He talks about the here and now versus the there and then mentality, and that we can get caught up in this idea. Well, there and then when I reach this AUM, there and then when I you know build this business, then I'll give, then I'll be content, then I'll be satisfied, then I can focus on impact. But what about the here and now? You know, with what's right in front of my face, and when I can replace there and then with here and now, it's a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Dude, it's so good. I um I for some reason um have had the unbelievable blessing to last couple of years have a lot of different uh one-offs with uh John Maxwell. And one of the things that he says often, and I was talking to him one time after this, uh, he was going over one of his new books and kind of soliciting feedback and things. And I just looked around. I couldn't believe I was in the room, first off. But then I went up to him, I said, Hey, like here's here's some thinking I have. Um, you know, here's some questions. And one of them was around that, and he said something really interesting. Um, and I think it'll set up, you know, this whole case of how do we manage it? He said, Travis, I love all the things you're doing, all that's great. But I've talked to a million Travises. That's been my job for 40 years. He said, and there's two things I know. He said, first, it is really difficult to say this because it's definitely not popular in the Christian community, which is like you do have to earn it before you can give it.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

He said, I hear too many people talking about these big things they're gonna do and all these things. And yet, to your point, uh, with uh heeding your advice of having margin, you do have to go earn it. If you want to be big giving and do these things, there's gonna be a lot of work and a lot of money-making years and those things. And then he said, secondarily, once you get there, choose your number. And every dollar you ever make after you get to that number, it goes completely to the kingdom, and you will be more happy, fulfilled, satisfied, I'm sure is what that book's about than uh than anything else. And so that was that was some of his thoughts around just like managing this tension of even just generosity, making money, all those things. But you know, Rob, let's let's go into this. So you mentioned us like when you first saw it getting in the career, how you started to have enough client interactions where you started to accept, like, wow, this really is like this tension of impact, like, how do I care about the people and hit the numbers? Oof, you know, it's it feels like maybe sometimes when I do the care about others, I lose on the scorecard. Can you can you uh, you know, five, ten minutes ago, you were talking about how you've done a lot of homework, you've got a lot of research on your side. Can you just debunk this myth that it's an either-or?

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I would say the first idea that we have to manage is I'll say refuse the false choice between values and excellence or impact and excellence, because values led is not a pass on being great at the work. Come on. Excellence is a part of the witness. So if you lead from values and faith, I would say you owe people more competence, not less. Dude. And so when when we recognize that, we need to be the absolute best at what we do. And then I think you move into rewriting your scorecard. Uh, yeah, just three questions for anybody listening today. First of all, what does my industry count? What does it fail to count? And what will I count instead? And when when I can work through that exercise, it's going to be a game changer because I don't want people to miss what's the three in any industry.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

What were the three questions that help in this?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah. So what does my industry count? So wherever God has you planted, what's the measure of success that the industry hands you on day one? Second is what does it fail to count? And then third is what will I count instead? Because here's what what Travis, what you and I know is what gets counted gets pursued. Boom. Every time. Every time. And so when we redefine our scorecard, everything changes. So here was the example. You mentioned the study. We we partnered with Pinkston Research, we spent six months studying general advisors versus what we call certified kingdom advisors, those that have our designation, and then clients of general advisors versus CKAs. So when we looked at CKAs, the advisor, him or herself, more than half of them said after they went through this training and began to change the way they approach their business as a certified kingdom advisor, their metric of success fundamentally changed from AUM to eternal significance. Same clients, same market. What changed was what they counted. So they they stopped only asking. I'm not saying they're not asking it, they stopped only asking how much is under management.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

And they started asking how much is on mission. Yeah. And then all of a sudden it was a game changer. You know, I have advisors calling me all the time saying, Rob, guess what our number is? Well, what they're talking about is not the AUM, they're talking about how much client giving happened last year, which they're now tracking. Come on. Well, we we just said, you know, that once you start tracking it, once you start uh measuring it, then that's what you're gonna pursue.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

And and so it's it's been incredible. You know, everyone has a swap, no matter what industry you're in. I mean, maybe it's billable hours for clients made whole. Maybe it's you know, if you're a pastor, it's not attendance, it's lives transformed. I mean, we could drop this in any industry and see how it worked. Now, here's what was amazing though, Travis, and you would hope this would be true, and it was. And this is I'll say the surprise ending to the study is that when advisors rewrite their scorecard, every situation gets better. Net promoter score goes from 58 from the traditional advisors to an 83 for the certified kingdom advisor. Wow, retention over three years prior to the survey, client retention, instead of being 75%, went to 98%. Oh my. And the reason that the clients were choosing them, the number one reason for the traditional advisor was performance. The number re number one reason for the clients of the CK was shared values. So the clients are asking for it. And then finally, and this I love this one 80% of the CKAs said that their their business, their work was quote, very aligned with their life purpose. Wow. 80% versus 45% uh of the general advisors. So, bottom line, when you do this, you're not trading anything, you're trading up.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Goodness gracious. Yeah, we're you know, I'm I'm very glad this is a podcast people can rewind. That two-minute segment's a gold mine, Rob. I think um, yeah, man. I mean, I think if we're all honest, I know for me, I can say my least fulfilled times in you know, being a financial advisor or now more of an entrepreneur, uh, is when I am going after the world scorecards only.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Again, I think that's fine. You know, again, I do think it's a both and it's not an either or. Totally. Um, but it is kind of crazy. One thing that uh isn't in that survey, and that is so, I just hope advisors, but also anyone in any industry, like especially with AI and everything, I kind of feel like that differentiator of I care about impact more will lead to some of those stats of retention pretty much universally. But I also am like, gosh, man, um it's just so stinking hard. And I always go back to that hymn, prone to wonder. So, like, what's your advice of like, you know, you're gonna fail at it? One hour you're on, one hour you're off, one day you're on, one day you're off. Like, uh, but how are you keeping the hope to manage it yourself, Rob, as you think about all that you have responsibility for? How have you seen uh folks that you admire do it? What's what's some of the tools, frameworks outside of, okay, we've defined it, which I love. Now let's go to the day-to-day battle.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Yeah, I mean, I think number one is, you know, and and certainly this is true in the the industry of financial advice, and I think it's true in in most industries, is, you know, if you were to boil it down, you need to stay curious, curious about the lives of the people you're serving. You know, this is not just about you providing a product or service. This is about you investing in people, wanting to know their story, entering their story, and journeying with them. And when you experience that kind of relationship and and you're involved with your clients at that level, you're never gonna trade it because that's the good stuff. Um, but but I also think that it requires uh you to flip your own scorecard personally as well. And and you talked about just this idea of a finish line, but you know, the culture's scorecard for your money and my money is status, security, significance. Come on, right? And you know, I mean, let's go back to scripture, the Tower of Babel. What did they say? Let us make a name for ourselves. Uh, you know, look at the rich fool in Luke 12. You know, what I think he used I and my like nine times in two verses, like my barns, my grain, my goods. He fails to recognize that God is the provider and the owner of everything, right? And so that biblical flip is money is a tool. It's morally neutral, but it's profoundly spiritual. And it's really a temporary tool that's ultimately going to burn up, but it's a temporary tool for eternal impact. And so if you and I can go from how much am I gonna keep to what is this for? Come on, it's a game changer, right? We can't serve God and money, but we can serve God with money. Come on, and so you know, this is the opportunity. Uh, I love what Billy Graham said. He said, Tell me what you think about money, and I'll tell you what you think about God, because these two things are so closely aligned. And, you know, that it's just so true. And so when you and I can draw a finish line and say, okay, what is enough, both for my lifestyle and my accumulation? And I can't set that number, and Travis, you can't set that number for anybody listening. That's something they need to do on their knees before the Lord, and there's not a right or wrong answer. But when we can define a spending level that we choose not to exceed, even as income grows, out of that will fall out a lifetime finish line as well, the which sits on the balance sheet. And then if I can say everything beyond that goes into a kingdom assignment, well, I mean, what that locks is just incredible impact. And what's interesting is as you talk to people who set finish lines, you know, you might think that they say, Well, as soon as I set the finish line, I lost my ambition because I didn't have any reason to accumulate anymore. No, it's just the opposite. They're like, no, I worked harder because I knew and I was experiencing the joy out of what that money was doing and how it was serving people and how it was solving problems and how it was advancing the gospel. And so now I'm even more fired up to get that bigger paycheck because it's not for me. I've already said I got enough. Yes, I'm able to send it on ahead.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah, I mean, it's it's a classic, man. Like we're all, whether we want to admit it or not, we're all working for somebody.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Insert what it is. And when you're working for the right somebody, it is wild the motivation because the thought, as I heard you say that, is you start to have a every hour is a stewardship. So it flips from I'm burned out, how do I get out early? How do I, you know, uh take more vacation, whatever it is, to whoa, I've only got this many hours today, and I'm held responsible for them because I'm working for the right person. And I think I think you're right. I'm so glad you said that because it's all that's what's so weird about this tension of impact is you end up, just like your stats said, you end up getting far more on the scoreboard than you could have ever dreamed, but you care less about that scoreboard, the worlds that is, because to your point, you've defined that score, that scoreboard for yourself in the ways that actually matter. Talk to me, like, have you seen um take this home? You know, one of the things I admire about you, Rob, that you've mentioned, and I've even uh solicited feedback from you as I have three young daughters, is like, dang, man, you've just you've just you're gonna get it well done when you when you get up there on just the way that you and your wife have raised those kids. Like, talk to me about how, like, I know we're going drifting a little bit from the finance side, but you're you're just you're just such a pillar of an example here. Like, how does doing this right even at work then maybe translate to doing a similar exercise at home?

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Yeah. Well, uh, yeah, I mean, I I appreciate that. I mean, I've I feel like uh uh every day I'm still trying to figure it out and I get it wrong more than I get it right. But you know, I think it always comes down to intentionality, uh Travis, you know, as you start to think about your why in terms of when you show up at work, what am I here for and what am I measuring? And you know, do I have my ladder up against the right, you know, house as I'm climbing? Because the last thing I want is to ultimately get to the top of the ladder and realize that it was, you know, it was leaning against the wrong goal. Um and and I think the same is true at home, is you know, you've got to start with your why. And, you know, in terms of a stewardship responsibility, other than my relationship, you know, with the Lord personally and my relationship with my wife, there is nothing more important than how I'm I am stewarding the opportunity to be dad to Colby and Mason and Abby and Emma every day. And so I think that's where we get back to margin, you know, and it it's this idea that if we are just living right up to the edge, and again, there's nothing wrong with just being out there using your gift of business building and and growth and all these things, so long as you can say, you know what, I'm done for the day.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

And and walk out of here, you know, whatever that is, and go home and be fully present, not distracted. Because remember, you know, so often the greatest opportunity for ministry is in the seemingly distractions of life. And yet it's those moments where I can lean in and be present. You know, I'm I don't know about you, but you know, I always found that my kids were were willing to open up and and talk the most, you know, after 10 p.m. But if if I'm like living right up to the edge and I'm like fried and you know, I'm just totally, you know, done by 10 o'clock, I'm not there to to lean into that opportunity to say, let's talk, and I want to listen, and you know, I'm engaged. Um, but you've got to be intentional about that. And I think, you know, everything from just your prayer life to family devotions to you know the things that just get crowded out so easily, you have to guard with everything you have because they will go in a hurry.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Brother, it brings up a different question. Thank you. Uh, especially, yeah, whether whether uh you're a listener and you have uh kids that are old and grown or you haven't even had kids yet. I hope you uh you listen to that. This next one's interesting too, because again, intention of impact. Um you are a man that has had a tremendous impact on the industry and you know, financial advisory, um, all of the things. And uh tremendous impact, like you just mentioned. And I and I hope people get to know you better to hear just the amazing way your kiddos uh are at their age. But like, how do you even do that one? Because now we're talking about yet again, two great things. Like getting it done at work in the industry you called to, and then like you said, leaving the margin to get it done at home. Like, any um any advice to us out there on like how did you manage the push-pool between those two?

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, I mean, I would say um number one is draw a hard line in the sand between, you know, I'm I'm gonna work my tail off during the day, but I'm gonna leave it there and I'm gonna be fully present. I think number two is just protecting your screen time. You know, it's a problem for your kids, but it let's be honest, it's a problem for us. And so we can we can get caught up in that as well and just the mindless scroll that's just robbing us of the rich times. And so I think just putting it away when you get home, protecting family dinner and and just being fully present, um, I think is so key. Um, I I would say the other thing that has been huge for us, Travis, is is really two things. Number one is uh being involved in a great Bible-believing church that has an amazing student ministry.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Um, you know, our our student ministry takes all the students on two mission trips a year, and that's just huge to get them out of their context, to see, you know, the how the rest of the world lives, to be serving and giving and sharing the gospel. Um, it's just become normal for my kids. When they went off to college, I mean at the University of Georgia, my kids were still going on mission trips for spring break while everybody else was heading to the beach just because that was normal for them. Yeah. And so I think that was huge. And then I think the the last thing would just be one of the ways you really extend your influence is by the other families that are in your closest circle. And so every one of you know, my kids can pick up the phone and call, you know, the the dads and the moms of the other families in our close circle, and they're gonna give them the same, you know, advice rooted in God's word that I would. And in some cases, they may be more comfortable with talking to somebody else about depending on what the issue is. But we've built that community of families that want to do life like we do life and value the things that we value and are willing to say no to the things that just become normal in our culture. Um, and because of that, I extend my influence by having those other uh, you know, moms and dads, leaders, influences in my kids' life that are kind of pushing in the same direction we are.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Oh, gold, man. Um, and thanks for going there. I think, yeah, I just wanted I want to listeners that maybe don't know you to know it's one thing to say all these things about business, but when you're also getting it done at home, this is the ultimate tension of impact. Um that, yeah, I know you you would say imperfectly and you know, ups, downs, all the things. Um, and you know, for people, uh especially in my age and demographic that are looking up to you as more mentor and kind of walking that path before us, um, gosh, is it inspiring to know it's possible? Here's some of the framework for it. So, Rob, uh just a few minutes left. I want to go back to this whole Kingdom Advisors, tension of impact. Um, what's your vision? Like What do you hope happens in this industry?

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Yeah, you know, one of the exciting things right now is that, you know, we've been doing this now 24 years at Kingdom Advisors, but um by God's grace, you know, where we've been headed for these 24 years is where the industry's going full steam ahead right now. Because in this age of AI and robo, you know, I mean, yeah, you can get a financial plan through Claude, but you can't, you know, Claude won't help you set a finish line and think about the impact of the money on the next generation and help you solve the world's greatest problems and help you, you know, engage with people who understand that money is probably the chief competitor to lordship in your life beyond anything else. And so, you know, what's really exciting to me is this idea that you know, we have a vision for 30,000 certified kingdom advisors that are coming alongside families and just helping them steward well what belongs to God, but has been entrusted to them for a brief moment. And that when they can see that that uh, you know, that thing, money that's going to ultimately burn up can be transformed into something that's eternal and compound for all eternity, it's a game changer. And so that that's our vision is that we would see, and we're already seeing it, literally billions of dollars flowing into God's kingdom, billions of dollars flowing into to faith-based investments in the public and private markets, families you know, thinking about you know their legacy and the impact of the money on the next generation and making sure that wisdom grows faster than wealth. Because as my friend John Cortina says, when when wealth goes grows faster than wisdom, we got a real problem. Oh, but often that happens through inheritance, right? You know, wisdom is slowly creeping along, and then all of a sudden, inheritance you know, shoots up uh the x-axis, and that money is going to propel those inheritors in the direction they're already going, which may be a disaster.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Dude, and it's so good because whether it's wealth or your influence uh as an entrepreneur and your industry as a financial advisor, we are all trying on that first scorecard to crush it, win all of that. But I'm so glad you said that because that is such a part of the tension. If the maturity, maturation, and wisdom don't go on that same path, hopefully even faster, then it actually will, I'll use the word you used earlier that I really like. It ends in a lot of carnage left behind. And that that, unfortunately for me, as a young 20-something, was so a part of my story. Way too much wealth, way too much success and influence in my 20s, and I didn't have the maturity and the wisdom, and it left pain that I've had to work out of and learn through and apologize for and hold hold myself responsible for as I lead today. And so if you're out there listening to this tension of impact and you feel like your time hasn't come, you just wish you were in the room where it happens, you wish you had more wealth, you had more influence, all these things. Um, maybe just think twice based on what Rob was just saying, because um it's not actually all it's cracked up to be if the maturity and wisdom isn't there with it. In fact, um, it is some of the most uh insecure and identity grasping times of your life. I've lived it. So, Rob, um, gosh, this is it's so good. I hate that we have to close this. And I just so love even like the ultimate impact. You know, you've talked about solving the world's greatest problem. Shout out to Casey Crawford and Justin Foreman and what they're doing and like all of these amazing organizations that are there to help people like Kingdom Advisors, or if you're not familiar, like C12, right? Or all these places that are there to give us community, right? And almost do a Hebrews uh 1024, right? Let's not give up on gathering and encouraging one another. We need organizations to do it. And so, Rob, as you close this last question for you. One last guys, if you're trying to manage this tension of impact, here's my last call to you. What would you say?

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Well, I would just say the results are a byproduct of actually putting people and purpose first. You know, when when we know our why and we're pursuing eternal impact, the results are going to follow, but you can't reverse engineer it. And so if you know what you're ultimately trying to accomplish, and that is to love and serve people for the glory of God, the results will take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Woo! Of course you would leave it with a mic drop, the tenth of our episode. Rob West, thank you, brother. Uh, I feel honored to know you as a friend, as someone in the industry, trying to be on this fight with you. Thank you for uh leading me and thousands of others in the way that you uh yeah, every day show up and the way that you have your own scorecard, because I think you're a heck of an example of this whole tension of impact and how to get it done the right way. So, Rob, thanks for being on the podcast, brother. It's a privilege to call you my friend Travis. Thanks for your time.